saginaw m1 carbine markingsneversink gorge trail map

Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. That way, were helping small businesses in The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. The band will have 3 spot welds. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. I have a Saginaw M1 Carbine. NOTE: We have added in the descriptions of parts we have of different markings we have come across over the years. The two most common types of wood used for caliber .30 carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. DIV. The trigger group is marked SG on the right rear which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 78). There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 The Irwin-Pedersen contracts were terminated by Ordnance. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. That's peDersen with a "D", by the way. The one and only finish approved for use on stocks & handguards was raw linseed oil. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. Both were Divisions of General Motors. My guess is that since the receiver has the SG on the left front, it's probably a Saginaw-Saginaw and not a Saginaw-Grand Rapids (IP). Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. I'm sure it's not all original. then allowed to dry. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . All Rights Reserved. Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. Collector references books such as my Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine and Larry Ruths excellent War Baby books are recommended for anyone wishing to explore the subject in greater depth. Bolt is parkerized. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Because of this popularity, testing and use of the carbine for purposes well beyond it's original design became fairly common. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. The Carbine Collectors Club. That serial number was issued to Standard Products. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. It is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the stock. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. G.S. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide Are you sure it is a Saginaw? Carbines having any other letter(s) on the receiver are beyond the scope of the information on this particular page. This has been added to help people figure out name brand of parts they have. The Type IA barrel band is marked KV-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 59). A little history of Saginaw (S'G') and its carbines. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. While most major component parts such as receivers, barrels (with a few exceptions), trigger housings, etc. Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 90% of its metal finish as refinished. The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. This Inland M1 Carbine was made back in 1944. Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith barrels to assemble M1 Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory. It shows light discoloration & spots of soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes on the metal. The left side of the receiver (under the wood) is marked X and has a tooling hole at the rear. 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. Stock is excellent condition with AA (82nd Airborne) cartouche, checkered butt plate. The rifle comes with a green canvas sling. Markings: There is no visible import mark. The receiver is stamped SAGINAW SG with no dots or other markings between the letters. It appears to read S. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. Underwood had receivers in various stages of completion left over when their contract ended. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. Stocks with a lighter color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch. They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. The bolt is marked IP on the right lug which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 36). Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. I have a high wood Rockola on my early IP. Some people estimate a carbine's date of manufacture by adding the quantities manufactured month to month Parts marked with any other contractors code are almost always a sure sign that the carbine is not all original. No specific manufacture dates are listed due to a number of reasons explained on pages 24 to 26 of Scott Duffs book, The M1 Carbine Owners Guide. The rifling is sharp. and appears to have come later. This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. It has seen some use but most of the markings are in great shape. Think of each serial number block as a separate contract. Irwin-Pedersenhad assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government. The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. Receiver or barrel or? The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it Most of these marks are light or small. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. *Post Reserved in case I run out of space*. A M1 with high wood is going to bring a high price. Caveat Emptor! Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? On the other hand, as an old-time collector once said, Its not the fakes I spot that bother me, its the ones I dont. The bolt is marked SG on the right lug which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 36). A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. of 0.3. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. To get better and faster responses and opinions. Ser. Is any of this "original" or a product of a couple rebuilds? If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Where the standard rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the top of which has been milled. Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. Inland receivers initially rejected because of an off spec deep hole drilled for the recoil spring and guide, later recovered and altered to use a detachable main spring housing). The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. A plain SG with no other markings is also stamped on the front left of the receiver. The receiver is marked SG under the wood and uses a wide locking tang. I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. Letter prefixes X through XD were initially allocated by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only. We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. The front sight is marked N which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 56). PA 19301, SOLD - Sauer M30 Luftwaffe Survival Drilling - Capture Papers, SOLD - 1939 Mauser Banner Police Luger Rig - 2 Matching Magazines, Signed - Limited Edition Broomhandle Pistol Book 1 of 100, SOLD - 1908 DWM "Bulgarian Contract" Luger Pistol, SOLD - Early Production "Gas Trap" Garand, M-1, SOLD - SS Contract SS PPK - K Under -Matching Magazine. We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. After the Irwin-Pedersen was canceled. Features include a 18" 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine. Post WWII, the Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) assigned replacement numbers to armories, arsenals, and depots Many online gun sales actually take away from your local A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. were available. I've got one with (JJ) in a circle , on the flipper, on a Winchester. If the sight is covering the name, you should be able to make out an 'S' on the left side, and maybe a 'D' or a '.' Got 1 ! This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. Older Post The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. After WWII many stocks & handguards did not have a manufacturers mark. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. It also has a S'G' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) The barrel is an Underwood barrel that was supplied to Saginaw SG. The high wood refers to the stock, not the hand guard. In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. Another word of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine stocks have been produced within the past couple of years. There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. 4 1/16" (approx.) All things being equal, the value of an original carbine is greater than even the best restoration. Keep in mind, U.S. http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp. Barrel Date: September, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. They show light scrapes & areas of discoloration from oxidation. It's the first I've seen. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. Most of the markings are deep. XA27, XA62, XD14). Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. And our What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. Most of the markings are deep. The barrel shows scrapes & small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the cold blue. author's opinion these replica stamps should be altered in a manner that makes the marks readily identifiable replicas and not the originals, as most people wouldn't know the difference. It makes a difference. No import markings. The letters were followed by Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. Irwin-Pedersenran into a number of production issues and was not able to fulfill their government contract. Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n, Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n, Inland s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, Inland s/n'd receivers from SI subcontract sent to Underwood, Inland s/n'd receivers from SG subcontract sent to Underwood, Irwin Pedersen s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood, Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, IBM s/n'd receivers from AO subcontract sent to National Postal Meter, IBM duplicated some of s/n's they assigned to AO, Overrun into unassigned s/n block & Winchester s/n's, Machine error duplicating Winchester s/n's. American Black Walnut had a long history of Lighter colored wood such as birch was often stained darker before being finished. Simi Valley, CA 93065. No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. To get better and faster responses and opinions. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 1872994. Such carbines may be fine collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines. The trigger group is marked IP on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 78). Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. DIV. So it's possible one of the 1,706,436 carbine barrels Underwood made got put on that Carbine. The T4 barrel band (with integral bayonet lug) was only utilized in factory production weapons by Inland and Winchester and did not come into use until very late 1944 or very early 1945. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. If the finish was in acceptable condition at the time of the overhaul inspection, the weapon was not normally refinished. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in Only Irwin-Pedersen & Saginaw SG receivers were produced with a tooling hole (page 22 of Craig Rieschs book, U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 7th Edition). The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. The serial number would make it an early one too. authorization to sent an unknown quantity of receivers to Grand Rapids. Winchester made 828,059, followed by Underwood Elliott-Fisher at 545,616, These receivers were purchased by Winchester. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. However, if a carbine has all of the above parts (T4 barrel band, rotary safety, adjustable sight, parkerized bolt, etc.) Thank you. It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. There is no erosion. M1 Carbine Saginaw Type 1A barrel band complete. Carbines have been, and still are, It is in about Good condition. were parkerized, the tint and texture of these parts varied. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. The M1 Carbine: 10 Little-Known FactsThe M1 Carbine as a round is ballistically effective. Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever If the Carbine was so bad, why did Audie Murphy use one? Americans most-decorated soldier of World War II, Lt. It was the chosen weapon of our enemy. More items The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees, contact us using the forum. The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. Thank you. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. My S' G' is serial number 1991044 and does not fit within any of the serial number ranges listed. We hope to raise awareness and understanding for the collector community, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby. A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. More pics on my later response. A total of over 6.1 million M1 carbines of various models were manufactured, making it the most produced small arm for the American military during World War II (compared with final inspection. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Instead of buying a gun thats Our Assessment:The M1 Carbine was developed and produced after WWII started. U.S. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. The barrel markings are well defined. Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. The U.S. Carbine Caliber .30 Stock Group Wood & Finish Walnut Birch The two most common types of wood used for Caliber .30 Carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. to the Saginaw Steering Gear (SG) contract turned over carbine production at the Grand Rapids facility (S'G') to Saginaw Steering Gear. due to a lack of original documentation. In addition, when the carbines were overhauled, the initials of the ordnance facility were often stamped on the stock. What caught my eyes right at the start when I purchased the little rifle was the unusual rear sight. As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a dull finish. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. for use with a select fire mechanism. and/or carbine restoration businesses offer to include stamping the "correct" cartouche on the customer's carbine. own to figure out what you want. until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. Each prime contractor was assigned a code letter: Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be expected to have all R coded parts. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's.

Apartments That Allow Airbnb San Antonio, Sunberry Farms Pog Nectar, Articles S